
I am not a big gambler, but I’m about to go out on a limb.
My goal when I started writing publicly was to create interesting truthful (some might say opinionated) articles on the industry with a fresh perspective. At the same time it gives me the opportunity to offer intimate insight on VoodooPC and what we do.
Even though Voodoo is a small boutique company I believe we have our finger on the pulse of the industry. We tend to see industry trends months (or years in some cases) before the mainstream market takes notice. We witness all of this by crafting the most bleeding edge luxury PC systems available today. By testing all of the latest hardware we almost always see industry shifts well ahead of time.
I hold Dell in high regard, even when the channel partners “beat people up” who use Dell laptops at channel meetings - you have to give it hand it to them. Ten million PCs in a quarter is nothing to sneeze at. In July of 2005 I wrote a controversial article entitled “Is it time for Dell to file for Divorce?” I wrote the article to simply question why a company as leading edge as Dell wouldn’t consider using the best technology in their systems. I am sure there are many reasons why they haven’t pulled the trigger until now, and only Dell can answer those.
Are you ready for this?
After all the writing, and living, eating, and breathing the technology day and night – I am now of the mind that the Dell AMD relationship is not just a matter of speculation, I would say it is imminent, and it is not a question of “if” but “when”. Even though analyst Ben Lynch and other analysts quelled these rumors, I still challenged them with their recommendations here, here, and here. Looking back I recall they put a sell recommendation on AMD with targets pinned squarely at $26 - and here we are today and it’s holding strong at $40+. In this business you can’t simply depend on analysts to make industry predictions, you have to understand the technology and realize how it affects the industry.
Dell needs AMD in order to get back in front of the Tier 1 OEM pack. They need to procure the best technologies, and they probably realize that they need to offer choices. I imagine Michael Dell is looking forward to reinvigorating his brand, and creating excitement within his company again.
Dell can no longer do business with an Intel only relationship. You can argue with me until you’re blue in the face, but when Dell finally transitions some of their products to AMD those with blinders on might become green in the face instead. It’s probably best that people in the channel prepare themselves, and realize that Dell procuring AMD products will only increase AMD’s ability to innovate new and exciting technologies.
So as I sit back and prepare myself for the onslaught I have to weigh the pros and cons of AMD doing a deal with Dell. On one hand I imagine Dell will do whatever it takes to expand its business, and rightfully so. On the other hand there is the matter of the high end luxury PC market of which the Voodoo brand has settled in nicely. I consider it a pending challenge – and the PC industry is much like the automotive industry, there is room for Ferrari and there is room for GM.
Will AMD allow Dell to cherry pick their best components and leave the rest for the others? Doubtful, knowing the AMD of today I would suggest that they will be calling the shots and they will ensure that there is a decent spread of technology throughout their portfolio.
Dell also has other markets to attack, including the server market - I imagine this will be their largest focus as they ramp up to launch a full line of Opteron 64 based servers. In the server market there is some heated competition between Sun, HP, Dell, and boutique companies like Rackable. Pure speculation here, but the recent news of a Dell Google relationship has me thinking that Google may eventually buy Opteron based servers from Dell.
That leads into the possibility of acquisitions. Dell will probably consider making acquisitions of companies who use AMD products in their systems in order to expand their portfolio. Certainly Dell can manage by themselves, but the possibility of acquisitions means that they can accelerate into certain markets quicker while expanding their growth potential. Dell doesn’t have a history of making acquisitions, but then again they don’t have a history of dealing with AMD either. Times are changing.
So with that being said I would say that this is good news for AMD and Dell. AMD should tread carefully as they are going into un-chartered waters, but generally speaking current AMD customers should view this as good news. It’s clear that AMD will not replace Intel completely for Dell, but it will be nice to see them finally get the recognition they deserve.
Then again, I could be wrong, and this article could end up with the rest of the rumors, bunk, and speculation. If I am right, let’s just hope AMD doesn’t forget their roots….though something tells me that they won’t.
22 blogger comments:
Interesting, very interesting. Unfortunately I don't have anything intelligent to add to the conversation.
Hi Rahul,
A lot of the people who say that Dell will never pick up AMD due to lack of capacity may not factor in the deal with Chartered Semiconductor, or the Fab that AMD is building in india:
http://www.forbes.com/2006/02/10/amd-india-chips-cx_cn_0210autofacescan05.html?partner=yahootix
What do you think?
-- Mike
You're making the rounds today Rahul!
The inq discusses your article today, thoughts? They don't talk about any other deal with any other semicond foundaries, but put some pretty simplified numbers up.
the article
Mike, I don't think the fab in India will play an immediate roll. I think AMD needs capacity in the second half of this year. I don't think Dell will launch anything too significant until the second half.
I imagine AMD will be able to get enough capacity to handle Dell's demand, because obviously AMD isn't planning to replace Intel.
Hi Johnnybegood, sad to say but Charlie is going to lose this bet I think :)
Feel free to offer your suggestions to our bet on the Inquirer website.
DELL Already uses AMD on SEVERS, Yet on DESKTOP AMD is not as reliable processor as INTEL. Its that simple. Public has incredible problems from both hardware & software as well as internet itself, so trying to keep extremely expensive tech support out of picure is #1 goal. Even at virtually free Parts, all specially designed to limit DELLS liability in CROSSFLOW situation,Deel assembles those parts.For What little DELL recieves($), even with direct marketing, leaves not much for Hour upon Hour at $20+ per techie jargon.AMD charges for"boosted" speed rating & charges again for "dead" pin count that do no good.INTEL does more with less & therefore is less likely to be tech problem.DELL dosn't want to tell you indian outsources are ripp off, charging you for free updates & advisements, yet thats truth.yet DELL has to pay someone too, just to figure out what you should learn yourself from MICROSOFT website, in most cases.
What happens to Voodoo's business if Dell does in fact incorporate AMD? Wouldn't Dell threaten to commoditize high end PCs just like they have done to the low and middle end? It would seem that the current situation is best for manufacturers of gaming machines and other high end PCs since Dell has almost ceded those markets to companies that use AMD. Won't it be harder for the high end companies to differentiate themselves when the microprocessors are the same?
Physician,
DELL Already uses AMD on SEVERS,
Wrong, they don't use AMD at all.
Yet on DESKTOP AMD is not as reliable processor as INTEL.
Sorry, wrong again. Years ago maybe, but that's way in the past. Their processors are highly reliable, it's that simple. One might argue that the desktop P4 processors aren't as reliable as AMD due to their thermal management issues.
Public has incredible problems from both hardware & software as well as internet itself,
It seems as if this evidence is about as anecdotal as it gets..
AMD charges for"boosted" speed rating & charges again for "dead" pin count that do no good.
Man this is about as bad as information gets. Where are you getting your research?
INTEL does more with less & therefore is less likely to be tech problem.
I hate to say "lol", but I feel compelled to.
DELL dosn't want to tell you indian outsources are ripp off, charging you for free updates & advisements, yet thats truth.yet DELL has to pay someone too, just to figure out what you should learn yourself from MICROSOFT website, in most cases.
You've lost me completely on this one. Sorry... Let's just hope that if you're a surgeon your research is more sound in that area ;) jk
physician,
i would argue that "P4 processors aren't as reliable as AMD due to their thermal management issues."
PHYSICIAN,
by the way, the rest of your post was total garbage too. i think rahul good job of saying why.
i dont think intel's new chips will be so wonderful. in multi-processor space, amd will keep a solid lead.
i disagree wtih charlie's capacity argument. first, chartered might kick out lots of chips, that arrow in hte picture in the article is flexible, so if there is lots of demand, they might be able to order more.
besides, dell might only use AMD in server/high end markets, where volume is low, so the capacity issue is less important.
This is an interesting commentary, especially when matched up with your friend on The Inq. While I look at the numbers he uses, provided, I think, by AMD (the chart in his article), I tend to agree more with your reasoning primarily because AMD should be able to produce more server CPUs without adversely affecting the mainstream desktop and notebook chip production. As you mentioned, and I have also read elsewhere, chances are, Dell would start by offering AMD based servers.
What surprises me in the Inq article is the very chart and production estimates in that chart. With Fab 36 coming online, shouldn't AMD be able to double production capacity in a matter of months? I think Fab 36 has 4 lines or maybe 8? If that's the case, openingh 1 line every 2-3 months should boost capacity dramatically. Heck, I doubt Dell would even account for one line of production for servers at AMD. But, I could be wrong.
Anyways.. interesting read.
Mark-
I think maybe physician is confusing dell with sun. Maybe he is also confused about which language he is speaking. (doensn't look like english)
Rahul, unfortunately in this case I have to concur with what others in the know and the Inq, surprisingly correct on this matter, have said.
AMD cannot support the capacity that Dell demands. Understand Dell's business model. Dell doesn't keep inventory like other companies. While HP and others may turn over their inventory perhaps 15-20 times a year at most, Dell turns it over more than 100 times.
Competition and margins are key and with Intel, Dell achieves this without losing business due to lead-times from lack of availability.
If Dell goes the AMD route, it will be in the server market first and foremost, not in the consumer market. And again, while I applaud the depth of your research, you have apparently not been made aware or are simply not privy to the model Dell uses that has made it so succesful.
WHEN AMD fixes its output issues and offers a competitive pricing scheme, it might creep into the fold.
One thing I find amusing is the lack of mention of Apple. Why do you think Apple went the Intel route in both d'tops AND notebooks? Why not AMD?
Intel, while not having the most outstanding product on the market, still has the best product line from top to bottom.
Eh, I get somewhat flustered by the anti-Intel attitude flaunted around the Internet these days. That said, there's no reason to consistently endorse a company and it's products, when it's products are undeniably behind that of it's competitors.
Dell should, at the very least, go Opteron on it's servers and workstations, though going AMD on desktops to save users the added expense that a Pentium 4 power bill will bring them (it's not much, but hey).
Frankly, I've got high hopes for Intel this year, but all the slams that they've gotten for Prescott are deserved. Northwood was way better.
Hi Rahul, thanks for your inciteful comments. It's refreshing to hear that somebody as close as you are to bleeding-edge technology continue to speak out in a forum such as this.
I actually have one question. When I read of the Intel-Skype deal (reminding me of Dell of course), it smelled of another "exclusive" deal for Intel. This actually made me quite upset that Intel continues to blatantly strongarm companies to go Intel-only, knowing full well their chips are now 64-bit compatible to AMD's. I'm sure the only difference in the software is to check which processor the user is using, limiting the user artificially. Your thoughts please???
http://news.com.com/Intels+mantra+Lets+make+a+deal/2100-1006_3-6038282.html
Thank You,
Mike Lee
Great article. I'm also convinced but...
Some say this March, some say before the first half of the year is over.
So, when will it be?
We've asked friends in China and Taiwan but no one can confirm the earlier reports that Dell's ODMs are just waiting for orders.
Anonymous wrote
besides, dell might only use AMD in server/high end markets, where volume is low, so the capacity issue is less important.
I would have to say this is unlikely. Dell will have to use parts from the entire line if they want AMD. They will launch small and work into their relationship later in the year.
I have also read elsewhere, chances are, Dell would start by offering AMD based servers.
I'm not so sure they'll start with servers only because of the pending launch of Quad SLI. Doing it with Intel just isn't feasable at this time.
What surprises me in the Inq article is the very chart and production estimates in that chart. With Fab 36 coming online, shouldn't AMD be able to double production capacity in a matter of months?
Yep. ..in fact they can increase capacity sooner than a few months if needed.
AMD cannot support the capacity that Dell demands. Understand Dell's business model. Dell doesn't keep inventory like other companies. While HP and others may turn over their inventory perhaps 15-20 times a year at most, Dell turns it over more than 100 times.
Well, that's the best thing about free speech :) Even though you're wrong, I appreciate your opinion. If you'd like to join in on the bet with Charlie feel free to email him when you get a minute...
If Dell goes the AMD route, it will be in the server market first and foremost, not in the consumer market.
I don't think this is possible. I think they will go server later in the year because it takes a long time to do qualifications on server based products. I also don't think AMD will be ready for server demand in the short term.
And again, while I applaud the depth of your research, you have apparently not been made aware or are simply not privy to the model Dell uses that has made it so succesful.
Thank you, although I am aware of their model - I just think people assume because Dell owns X% of the entire PC market AMD should therefore supply X% of their product line. It's not going to happen. It's not realistic to assume Dell would make such a drastic change.
One thing I find amusing is the lack of mention of Apple. Why do you think Apple went the Intel route in both d'tops AND notebooks? Why not AMD?
I think there is a long standing relationship here that finally broke into a business relationship. Most Apple customers could care less which processor is inside the machine - all they want is an Apple PC. This trend is starting to change on the PC side however.
Intel, while not having the most outstanding product on the market, still has the best product line from top to bottom.
Huh?!
Eh, I get somewhat flustered by the anti-Intel attitude flaunted around the Internet these days. That said, there's no reason to consistently endorse a company and it's products, when it's products are undeniably behind that of it's competitors.
Agreed.
Frankly, I've got high hopes for Intel this year, but all the slams that they've gotten for Prescott are deserved. Northwood was way better.
I had high hopes for Yonah too, but unfortunately Apple got it first and no ODMs have anything worth looking at yet - at least not for our space.
I actually have one question. When I read of the Intel-Skype deal (reminding me of Dell of course), it smelled of another "exclusive" deal for Intel. This actually made me quite upset that Intel continues to blatantly strongarm companies to go Intel-only,
Don't let it get under your skin. Users of Skype probably never had a conference call of more than 10 people. I haven't - and apparently the Intel feature may allow a user to go beyond 10 users in a conference chat. That being said I'm sure AMD processors will be more than capable of running the same features ... This seems like more of a marketing relationship than a technology lead.
Some say this March, some say before the first half of the year is over.
I say it will be spread throughout the year.
We've asked friends in China and Taiwan but no one can confirm the earlier reports that Dell's ODMs are just waiting for orders.
Neither can I :)
You are out on a limb and I hope you win the bet. A lot of people knock Dell and Intel left and right (Including me at times) but it doesn't always seem warrented. Obviously Dell is doing something right, look at how many Pcs they push a year. It also really depends what you are going to do with the computer. I think on the net most of the people who knock on those guys build their own computers and use them for many different things. A 500 dollar Dell system is a relatively good deal for most people. They surf the net, email, IM, and use office. It seems like a good way to go. People need to lay off Dell a bit. On the Intel side of things they have made a lot of good cpus. Right now the P4 is not a very good choice because of the heat issues mostly (easier to OC a AMD too). Look at the Centrino though. That is solid. Turion is nice (brother and sister have turion based laptops) but realistically Centrino is quite a bit better right now. (Viiv makes no sense to me so we will ignore it) Intel has good choices for consumers just not on every market. They know that and are trying to get it fixed. Someone mentioned Apple and they are the ones who really piss me off. The ad on TV they have going claiming Intel has never done anythign good on a PC and is majically good because it is on MAC is ridiculous. It makes me want to throw my Nano into Lake Superior. The fact that Intel lets that be on air is horrible. Solidifies my never buying a MAC. G5's were sweet and this advertising is very annoying. It is more like "what is an Intel doing on a Mac?" Not playing any good games that is for sure or having software at a decent price. Apple's imagine is getting worse and worse in my oppinion. That ad is trying to make people who know little about computer go "Oh! so PC is bad and I should buy and over priced Mac! Ok!" I am glad AMD is nowhere near a Mac. So I hope that people stop basing Intel and Dell so much. Heck I still use a P2 I have, nice little internet PC so guest do not touch my AMD rig. This rant got a bit out of control...
Off topic there are some cool pictures of the Ice sculptures carnival that we have here and some pics of a case I painted if you wanna check them out. Thought I would offer.
I think you are right Dell will come out as a supplyier of the new AM2 FX range to round out their gameming and dual/quad core opterons in their server range?
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Rahul understands that scaling production is not much of an issue and neither is service. Those are controllables. Timing might stink, but you control it.
The fundamentals are that AMD has been locked in to young opinion leaders, (overclockers and modders), for years now, establishing a brand loyalty.
How many kids have shown off their savvy by bragging about overclocking an Intel processor? How uncool!
Dell's capitalizing on AMD's strategy but it won't be without concessions to some of AMD's other objectives. AMD's tactics have created a low risk opportunity for Dell.
Young people get older and start spending their own money - but their brand preferences started setting in concrete in their teens.
Dell would simply be leaving it on the table for someone else by not carrying an extensive AMD offering.
There's money in AMD based computers and Dell is gonna get it's share.
It's Coke vs. Pepsi and joint promotion 101
As for high end - you gotta be there to understand it. - Dell will never capture the high end - the "high end" consumers will always define "high end" - Dell would have to launch it's own "secret" boutique label to get near it. Dell would be better off pursuing that route rather than trying to push a mass market image uphill. But hey, that's why agencies get canned.
Does Toyota and Lexus ring a bell?
This is a lock for Rahul. Does that other guy really get paid to write?
Touché
vautour
vive les acadiens
How about they rebrand their company as "Hell" (for the temperature of those P4's that they're overclocking with quad SLI). Works for me.
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